Jeff Steinmann: Welcome to the How to Quit Working show. We’ve got an awesome show today. Today, I’m going to be talking to Wesley Murph. Now, Wesley was doing medical sales and while that was thoroughly fascinating and interesting and giving him exactly the lifestyle he wanted—no, I’m just kidding. It wasn’t. It wasn’t giving him the lifestyle that he wanted so he started a business. He started a pet shop. And that didn’t quite give him what he wanted either.
So he finally figured out a way that he could actually work until noon everyday and still make a really good living. Today, Wesley is going to tell us all about how he did that, and give us some great tips and tricks about how to start your own business and do it in a way that lets you live life the way you want. And in Wesley’s case, that is being done by noon. Wesley, welcome to the show.
Wesley Murph: Hey Jeff, how are you doing?
Jeff: I am doing great. I’m happy to have you here today because you’re a really neat guest for the show for two reasons. And reason number one is you’ve created an amazing life for yourself that you love and you’re going to tell us all how you did that. And reason number two is you’re a copywriter, so you’ve got a really great skill that everybody who’s listening to this and wants to do something on their own, it’s a skill that’s valuable for them.
Wes: Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s the skill to get customers, and everybody needs customers so therefore, it becomes a very valuable skill.
Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. If you can get customers, you can do anything, right? Because products are everywhere.
Wes: You said it better than I did. If you can get customers, you can do whatever you want. Yes.
Jeff: So tell us a little bit about what did you do before you started working from home and with your copywriting business.
Wes: Yeah, that’s a great question, Jeff. So, I went to college and graduate school and got my degrees in Nutrition because quite honestly, it was the only thing that I was interested in. And I graduated, and I came out with student loans and I realized I did not want to do really anything with my degree so I got a job in medical sales. I was really lucky, Jeff. I hooked up with a great company called Novartis Nutrition. They’re like a Fortune 500 pharmaceutical company but they also have a medical nutrition division. And for six years, I cut my teeth in face to face, nose to nose selling. I was very lucky to have some great mentors. I worked with some phenomenal people.
And after six years of doing it, I said to myself, I want to have my own business. I was tired of travelling and going to meetings and all kinds of things. So this is going to sound even more bizarre, is I decided to start a pet business. As in like bow wow, like dogs and cats. Totally unrelated. When you said everybody’s looking for a product, the reason I’ve started the pet business is because I was looking for a hungry, ravenous niche. Because I’ve found that before you even find the product, you need to find a niche of people that have money, they’re willing to spend their money, and they’re willing to do almost anything to satisfy some urge that they want. And the pet industry happens to be that sort of niche.
Jeff: So you did it right! You found the market first, and then you found the product to fit it.
Wes: I would love to say that was because I’m a genius but that’s not true. It just happened to be that way, to be honest with you.
Jeff: Okay. Well, you did right.
Wes: If you want to consider me a genius, then please I’ll take it.
Jeff: I only have geniuses on the show. And you know what? In order to get on the show, you’ve got to have a really compelling story and you got to be somebody that people want to be like, and you obviously are. So tell us a little bit more about that pet business. What happened there?
Wes: Yeah. So, I realized early on, I had to learn direct response marketing. I had to learn how to write a sales letter. I had to learn how to write emails. Basically, I had to get the phone to ring with people that wanted to pay me money for what I sold. So I started studying in guys like Dan Kennedy and Gary Halbert and Clayton Makepeace and Gary Bencivenga. All these people that are world class direct marketers, world class copywriters. And I started doing writing sales letters and printing newsletters. I don’t really think that I was that good. I think I was just very persistent and nobody else in my niche was doing this.
And my business just started to take off. It’s kind of funny because one day, just on a whim, I decided to write Cesar Millan. The dog was for—I wrote in a sales letter because his business was pretty close to mine in Los Angeles. I forgot what I asked him. Maybe I asked him to get on the show or something, I don’t remember exactly what I said but I figured he would never call me, never write me back. And so I mailed the letter, I totally forgot about it. And about a couple of weeks later, I get a phone call in my business. And it’s one of the producers of the Dog Whisperer.
Jeff: Oh, wow.
Wes: Yeah, I was blown away. I felt it was my friend told a joke or my wife pulled a joke on me. I said, “Okay, yeah. Who is this really? Why are you calling me,” right? But yeah, sure enough. Her name is Kay Sumner. She’s super nice and she said, “Hey, we’d like to come by your pet business and film an episode of the Dog Whisperer. Would that be okay for you?” And I was like, “You’re going to ask me to like…” So long story short, they came. They did a show. When the show aired, my pet business just exploded. I was busy two years in advance. I had put more employees. But I learned a valuable lesson because some part of me was not going to mail that sales letter to Cesar Millan because I thought he’s an A-list celebrity, he’s not going to call me, he’s not even going to read it. And lo and behold, it worked.
So at some point, I reevaluated when my business just got busier than what I wanted. I said, you know what? I really like the marketing aspect of it. So maybe I can do this full time for myself and for other clients instead of having a brick and mortar business with payroll and employees and over—I had a lot of overhead, too that I was getting tired of every month. So, I stopped, I got out of that pet business. It was very hard because I built some of the most wonderful clients in the world.
And about three years ago, I started doing direct response full time, this being my third year. It’s built up. I’m earning a nice living, I work from home. I wouldn’t say I don’t have a boss because ultimately, my clients—they’re the boss. But I get up when I want to. I’m an early riser so I normally start writing in about six in the morning and by noon time everyday and my day is pretty much over so my afternoon… I either spend it doing what I want to do or do a little errands and things for my wife or whatever. So, yeah.
Jeff: Okay. Well, so since you’re the self employed one, you’re the one that has to run all the errands, right? You have to go to the bank. You got to take the dogs to the vet, whatever it maybe, right?
Wes: Hey, Jeff. Who’s really in charge of every household than his whole probably world? If it’s not me, I don’t think it’s us guys.
Jeff: Well, we’ll let our listeners decide what they think the answer is to that. So you’re living a pretty awesome life. So tell me, what was it like when you had successful pet business, Cesar Millan filmed an episode on your show. You had great clients. You had all this money coming in, and you decided to do something different. What was that process like?
Wes: Well, funny you say that because you said, you have all this money coming in. And I learned a really, really, really valuable lesson in that business, the pet business, that it’s not about your gross. It’s all about your net. And yeah, my gross was—every month, my gross was delicious. But I had so much overhead that after I paid everybody and paid taxes and did payroll, there was something left over for me, but I always looked at it like man, I’m earning so much but I’m taking home so little.
So and that’s why I think one of the beauties of what I do now is I don’t have an overhead. So almost everything that I bring in is just pure net, pure profit. I think that’s one thing I would like—I would recommend anyone listening is that when you’re looking for a product or service to sell, I mean, I always like to think of it like I want to have a product like a rock star. Because when you think about a rock star, they create a song or an album once and they sell it over and over and over and over and over. And everytime they sell it, they make a little royalty.
Like, one of my favorite TV shows is Shark Tank and one of the guys on there that people don’t like is Kevin O’Leary. He’s kind of like the serious one. But he’s really smart. If you look at him, everytime he wants to get a royalty, he wants to cut deals with royalty because he knows that if someone’s selling a product for 50 bucks and he’s getting a dollar off every single sale and he’s not doing anything to get that dollar.
That’s a very, very, very good product to be in. Because like the rock star, when you record that album and people like it and it becomes a classic and 30 years from now, someone’s buying your album and you’re getting a dollar off that sale, that’s how you have a very good product. That’s how you get rich. That’s how you live a good lifestyle and you’re not trapped by your business. I always feel trapped by my pet business. I had to be there. I had to pay the bills. I had to do the marketing. It was like I was trapped.
So I guess, along the way, I learned—I just learned a lot of—I was either going to go get an MBA and stay in corporate America, or I was going to start my own business. I’m glad I started my own business because I just learned so many things about business that I feel I never would have learned had I gone, went back to college, and done an MBA or something like that.
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Jeff: Sure. Sure. Yeah, college isn’t really for learning.
Jeff: It’s for drinking, right? Well so, you said you learned a really important lesson about royalties, about really creating assets that continue to pay you over time. How did that lesson apply to your business that you then created?
Wes: So, funny you say that, too because a lot of people that do what I do, they’re just in the trends business meaning they write campaigns for a fee. And they get that fee and then they have to go get another client and write another campaign. So I kind of call it they’re chasing checks. A lot of people are in the check-chasing business and that’s a difficult business to be in. So I charge royalties. I charge a fee to write the promotion and then I charge a royalty based on the customer’s business. Because I know that if I write them a promotion that works, they’re going to make a ton more money than they ever paid me.
Some clients say, well, I don’t want to pay royalty. I’m like, no, no, no. You actually do want to pay royalty. In fact, whenever you have employees, you always want to pay them some kind of compensation that’s tied to performance because it’s human nature to work hard and perform better when you know you’re going to get more money based on the results of your performance.
So when I write a campaign for a client and there’s a royalty tied to it, you better believe, like I’m doing everything I can to make that promotion as good as it possibly can be. I’m following up with that client, always trying to improve it because there’s something at stake for me, the royalty. I just say that because if someone listening to this call, they think it’s all about having their own business and selling a product and making money, I would just caution them to think through what kind of lifestyle do you want.
For me and my pet business, I was trapped. I had to be there, I had to open the door, I had to pay overhead. I wished someone had given me this advice before I started because I would have thought through the business model, like how do I want to live my life, what time do I want to wake up, where do I want to work? Like now, I can take a laptop and go down to the coffee shop and I can write my campaigns there. I can go, I can fly to see my parents, take a vacation. My wife and I went to Europe for two weeks this summer and I took my laptop and did some work on the plane and a little bit of work at Europe. So that’s important to me now. I didn’t really know that when I had my pet business that it’s the business model and the lifestyle that you really need to think about.
Jeff: It’s awesome that you’ve got that. Because so many people, when they create a business, just like you said, they just create a job for themselves. I personally think that if I had my choice between running a—as you call it, a transactional or a check-chasing business—and working for somebody else, I’d go work for somebody else. Because the transactional check-chasing business is the worst of both worlds. You’re still tied to it but you don’t get any of the security of the paycheck. You don’t get the benefits, you don’t get any of that good stuff, but you get all the bad stuff.
Wes: You get all the bad stuff. And I mean, there’s certainly situations where if the checks are large enough, you don’t need to chase that many checks and you’re set for—and that can certainly happen because maybe some consultants and I mean, I’m thinking maybe professional athletes when they sign their contract, but in my experience, those businesses are far and few between.
So I guess I just—if anyone’s listening, I guess my advice would just be like really pay attention to the back end part of a business. And when I say that I mean where are the opportunities for multiple transactions and if you can make it on automatic, you want those automatic back end transactions coming through over and over again. Because that’s how you’re ultimately going to build a sustainable business.
Jeff: How do you get clients for your business?
Wes: That is a great question. That’s a great question, too.
Jeff: Everybody wants to know. Everybody’s like, “Wes, this sounds great, we’re onboard, but how the hell do you get clients?”
Wes: Yeah, so for me, the three—well, I’ll talk about two things. Two things that have worked better than anything is first of all, networking face to face with people that I know have the money and the need to hire me. So, I’ll give you an example, Jeff. One marketing conference I go to every year is put on by AWAI. It’s a writer’s association. They’re owned by a big subsidiary called the Agora and every October, they have a writing, direct marketer, copywriters meeting in October.
And the cool thing about going there is not so much the seminars and everything they put on, but all of the people that hire copywriters that do what I do, they’re at that meeting. And just like having a beer with someone, you’re just getting to know a little bit about their family and asking them questions. Just letting go of human interaction, I found nothing beats that face to face interaction with people. Because we’re all a little skeptical, we’re feeling people out especially before you write them a check.
So going to those seminars and maybe people listening—there’s always marketing seminars and some of them are expensive. And I would say, look at them less from the standpoint of what you can learn versus who you can meet when you go there. That’s been more valuable to me than anything. I’ll give business cards and I’ll email those people right away. I’ll say, “Hey, it was great meeting you. It was good talking about your spouse and your new baby and hopefully everything’s going well. Let’s schedule a time to see if we can do a project together, hook up, something like that.” It’s like, I found that extremely valuable.
The second one has worked great for me better than almost anything is direct mail. Last Friday…every Friday, Jeff, I have a happy hour for myself. As soon as the afternoon rolls around, my happy hour on Friday is I do something to promote myself. Normally, I mail some sort of crazy direct mail campaign to my prospects. I have about 50 prospects that cut the checks. They’re the ones that are in charge of cutting the checks.
To give you an example, this last Friday, I put together a direct mail campaign where the envelope is an actual pizza box like a large cardboard pizza box that you would get if you ordered a pizza. I ordered 50 large cardboard pizza boxes. And inside that, I have a sales letter. I think it’s about a six- or seven-page sales letter that top of it looks like—it’s a long story. The top of it kind of looks like a pizza topper and it gets into a sales letter. So, I mean, I figured if I mail someone a cardboard pizza box in the mail, if you got that in the mail, you’re going to open that and you’re going to read it.
Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.
Wes: So I’ve done cardboard pizza boxes, I’ve done popcorn boxes, I’ve done Chinese take-out boxes, I’ve done Burlap peanut sacks. I try to find the most outrageous thing that the mail—that the post office will take and I stuff a letter in there. And my call to action is just, “Hey, give me a call or drop me an email.” I don’t try to close the deal. I don’t try to hard sell myself and say I’m the best thing in this and that. I just try to run a few, some of the proof elements of the things I’ve accomplished and I say, “If you’re ever looking for someone like me, if I can ever help you out, shoot me an email or pick up the phone and call. I’m really easy to talk with. And let’s see if I can help you out.” That’s worked really, really—because the creativity and the piece that I create, that’s a proof element in itself. So if someone’s looking at that and they’re saying, “Wow, if you can get my attention with this, what can you do for my business?”
Jeff: That’s awesome. So, why won’t you just use email since it’s free?
Wes: Good question. I hate people like you that say that. Because I have clients, too, and I face this all the time is that a lot of times, people, they don’t want to spend money on marketing. They want to do the easiest campaign that’s the cheapest. Obviously email is that, it’s free to some extent and it’s quick.
By the way, I do email marketing. I have a weekly—or I’m sorry, a daily email that I send out to my list on my website which is my name, it’s wesleymurph.com. You can go there. You can get on my e-sign. So I send an email everyday during the week to my list which is like, I use a lot of personality marketing, tell silly stories and I talk about movies. But the thing about email though, it’s one dimensional. And we’re all being bombarded by emails. It’s like, if I open my email box right now, I’ve got hundreds I haven’t even read, I don’t plan on reading them.
Jeff: Oh, it’s insane.
Wes: And you’re the same way. I mean, think about it. If that person doesn’t know you and you send them an email, certainly, you can connect with them and I would suggest, if you’re going to send them an email, don’t try to sell yourself. Don’t try to sell your product or service. I would suggest trying to connect with them, trying to set up a consultation or a phone call or just trying to gently move that process forward. Maybe offering them a free copy of your book.
So you position yourself now as an expert, someone knowledgeable in the field, someone adding value to their life before you turn around and ask them to cut a check or buy something from you. I just think that… I think email has a place. I like email marketing. I’m a big fan of it. But if I send you a pizza box in the mail, Jeff, or I sent you an email, I believe the pizza box is going to get your attention and have more of an impact than an email.
Jeff: Definitely. Definitely. Now, that’s cool. Sometimes, it just comes down to plain old creativity.
Wes: Sure. Absolutely. Getting someone’s attention and holding it and doing that in a creative way, I mean, that’s—attention now is really hard to get from anyone and the creativity certainly helps. Absolutely.
Jeff: Yeah. So what are some practical tips that you would give folks? Because most of the people on this call are in—either in or want to be in the direct marketing, direct consumer arena. What’s some advice that you can give them?
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Wes: Find a niche first. Find a ravenous, passionate, crazy niche that the people—they have an inch that they can never scratch. They just want to keep for. I think one being is like gambling. Gamblers have this just like poker players and they want to get to Vegas and they want to get online. And there’s just this insatiable niche within gambling. The pet industry is another one. People that love their pets, they’re going to spend almost any amount of money to feed their pet and buy leaches and take their pets in the veterinarian. Parents. Parent will do just about anything for their kids. Parents want their kids to be straight A students and popular and like—so that’s another niche, selling to parents.
So find the niche first and then find out what the niche wants. You see what they’re buying. You can go on to Amazon, you can do tons of market research on Amazon to see what books are people buying, what’s the comments about the books, where the niches are really hot. And then find out what that niche wants to buy and then even within that, look at what other products are being sold in that niche. Find out what people don’t like about these products. And then see if you can come out with a product that is somehow different and better and solves whatever problem the current market still has.
And I think that’s even more important than chasing customers because if you don’t have your product right, if you don’t have the psychology of the niche right, if the niche doesn’t want what you have, if all those things are off, you can spend a lot of time and money chasing customers that don’t want what you’re selling. And I made that mistake in my life, too. I’ve had products I thought were good, come to find out nobody wanted to buy them so like, I was wasting time and money.
Jeff: Well, what do you mean when you said “the psychology of the niche”?
Wes: Finding out if they’re passionate. Finding out—another thing is do they have money? People can want what you have but if they’re broke, I mean at some day, at some point when you got to earn a living, you got to sell whatever you have. So they may want what you have really, really, really badly but if they have no money, you’re just chasing your tail. You’re wasting time.
So just like I said, doing your research before you jump in to the marketing. And I heard it done the other day, it’s like the movie industry, right? The movie industry creates a movie and then they go about dumping all this money into trying to sell it, trying to buy commercials and all these sort of stuff. And that’s the old school way of marketing. The new school way of marketing is like we’ve been talking about. It’s like, find the niche first, find out what the niche wants first, then create the product, then sell the niche what they already want. That’s much, much easier than creating the product and then trying to force it down the niche’s throat. Does that make sense?
Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like what you’re saying is, while copywriting is a valuable skill and it’s an important skill, it is much easier if you found that ravenous niche first and figure out what they want.
Wes: Oh, for sure. I mean, absolutely. And then, the campaigns, the marketing side of it, it almost writes itself because you already know all the hot buttons, all the emotions, all the benefits that the niche wants and they’ve already told you. It’s funny because people all the time—they come to me and they want me to write them this super awesome campaign for a product or a service that’s not that good to begin with.
Let me give you an example. I got a phone call recently from a small business in a very, very competitive niche and they wanted me to write them a campaign to generate referrals. So I was like, “Okay. That definitely can be done. I’ve done that before.” But I’ve decided to call the business separate from talking to my contact there. I just acted like I was a customer. I just acted like I wanted to schedule an appointment for what they sold.
Jeff: Oh, wow.
Wes: Yeah, and the funny thing was, the receptionist that answered the phone, she had a very subtle tone in her voice like I was bothering her. And it wasn’t like she was being obnoxious, but it seemed like she was too busy or not interested or distracted or something, I don’t know what it was. But immediately, when I talked to her, it was a turn off.
The next thing I thought to myself is, okay, if my first contact point with this business is negative, if the receptionist acts like I’m bothering her when I’m the customer, how many other things in that business are going on that I don’t even know about where no matter what campaign I wrote, the customers are not going to refer their friends because they don’t feel like they’re really getting a fantastic, referable service.
So I went back to my contact and I said, “Look, here’s what I did. I suspected a lot of other things going in the business that makes it—that’s the reason why you guys are not getting referrals on your own. I wouldn’t feel right writing you something and charging you a lot of money because I don’t believe it’s going to work.” That was a tough conversation to have because I turned down a lot of money. She had to swallow a bitter pill that probably some people needed to be fired, probably they needed to rework a whole bunch of things in their business so every contact point was positive and warm and inviting so that people will refer them.
Because that’s my point there, the psychology was off so no matter—so if I was doing the campaign, it wouldn’t have worked, chances are, because of these things way out of my control. But it would come back to look bad on me like I wasn’t doing my job, and I know from experience that it wouldn’t be my fault but they would not see it that way. So that’s just where the psychology and everything has to line up so that you can get that real big bang from the marketing that you create.
Jeff: Yeah, and that’s such an interesting example that you gave there. It goes back to what you talked about how you charge an upfront fee and then a royalty fee after that. Because your pricing structure is that way and I think that you made the decision not to work with this client from an ethical place on hand, but also, it sounds like it was the right business decision to make because you wouldn’t have really gotten much in the way of the royalties because you didn’t think it was really going to be effective. So what this business—or what somebody has when they’re working with you is really like a partner in their business, right? Because everybody’s desires and everybody’s goals are now aligned. Now everybody wants the same thing. You as a service provider, the business as the business are all wanting the same thing.
Wes: Yeah and that’s where I think to thinking long term and thinking more about the back end of your business. The back end of my business are first of all, those campaigns that work to get my clients’ phone ringing. So I’m better off turning down assignments that I know are guaranteed losers than taking a check, doing something I know is not going to work out of the gate because there’s some things off. Having it probably not worth—I mean, I’ve been surprised and I had to take checks too to pay bills and I’ve been surprised when things I didn’t think were going to work did. Because I’m thinking long term. I’m thinking relationships. I’m thinking partnerships. I’m thinking how much more value can I bring to the table than just this one transaction.
And there’s—any one who hasn’t heard J. Abraham, he’s a marketing guy. He talks about the strategy of preeminence. And this has been around forever and ever and ever. But the whole concept, it boils down to really, really sincerely liking your customers. Wanting what’s best for them, wanting what’s best for them before your own needs, trying to deliver as much value as you can so that your prices and all that other stuff becomes moot point because the person’s like wow. This person seems like they want to help me, seems like they know what they’re talking about.
Like my wife and I were having one of the bathrooms in our basement redone and our plumber, he’s like—he is freaking awesome because this guy, when you talk to him, first of all, you know that he knows plumbing, like he knows everything about it. He actually seems like he really like. And the cool part is like, he seems like… you get the feeling when you’re around him that he really wants to do everything that’s in your best interest from meeting your budget to talking about—they have some new—they don’t use copper pipes anymore. They have something called PEX pipes that are these new—he’s talking about like, “This is what I recommend. If this was my house, this is what I would do.”
So you totally feel like—I don’t know the first thing about plumbing but I feel like the guy’s looking out for me. And that just melts all kinds of resistance and you feel good writing him a check. He’s like your friend instead of just trying to give him money out of your pocket. I just feel—I think this goes back to the strategy of preeminence. I just feel like that’s really what I’m trying to do is like, give someone a really honest advice that I would give myself if I were in their shoes. And that’s hard to do sometimes, Jeff, because like, maybe I turned down a check or maybe it’s something the person doesn’t want to hear or maybe it creates more problems for them. Maybe they know that people need to be fired or there needs to be some things reworked and their product re-serviced. But they don’t want to do that. They want the easier way out. But I just learned that the long term approach is just a better way to think.
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Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s awesome. That’s amazing, amazing advice for our listeners. Well, Wes, what’s the biggest mistake that you’ve made on this?
Wes: You mean, I can only answer one?
Jeff: You know, it’s funny. There’s always… there’s a couple of standard answers I get to that question and that’s usually the chuckling response.
Wes: Yeah. That’s right. It’s only an hour, we can be here a lot longer. What’s the biggest mistake that I had made? I think now after I said everything I said about focusing on the customer and putting myself in their shoes first, I think the biggest mistake I made—and this goes back to my days of selling when I was face to face with Novartis, I heard brilliant, brilliant copywriter Gary Bencivenga say one time, “Think like the fish, not like the fisherman.”
And when you think about that, it’s so brilliant because we as marketers, we as entrepreneurs, we as business owners, we think like marketers, entrepreneurs, and business owners. We want to sell what we want sell. We want to make money for our family and our business because we have bills that have to be paid. So we’re thinking like fishermen. But the customers, our prospects, they’re fish. And they’re thinking like fish. If we bait our hook with strawberry shortcake, which is something I like to eat, that’s not what the fish wants to eat. The fish wants a worm or the fish wants—I don’t know what the fish wants, I’m not a fisherman but so shifting your mindset to focus on the fish instead of me, the fishermen, it took me many, many, many, many years to really understand that.
And I think if I had gotten that a little bit quicker and practiced it, it’s like, how can I be a value to someone first, I think that would have made my journey a little bit easier. I think I would have—you can tell some prospect that they’re not serious, they just want to take advantage of you, they want you to give, give, give and they want to take, take but if you have the value first approach, I think you can sense those people and just say, “You know what? We weren’t meant to be, that’s okay.” And go after someone that appreciates what the value that you bring to the table. I think I would have done that, it screens the prospects a little bit faster and you know what?
I think that this is even more important because as much as I love the internet, Jeff, it’s created this mentality that everything should be free, especially information. I get emails a lot, people that are on my email list, and their intentions are good so I’m not saying their intentions are bad but they’ll ask me for free advice. My response is, well first of all, nobody values free advice. You’re better off not giving free advice because unless someone asks for it like no one values free advice, you’re better off charging them.
And then I’m like, why would I spend 20 minutes of my time giving you free advice that you’re not going to take in the first place when other people are paying me for that advice? But I realized, as much as I’m saying to deliver value first and in some ways, the market, it seems like it’s just as ravenous. “I’m entitled to everything for free. Me, me, me.” And I guess people listening, I would just suggest just to think through what I’m saying and I still think the value first approach is best. It means maybe screening your prospects a little bit better and working with people that are more qualified to do business with you.
Jeff: Awesome. Awesome. So, and that’s something that’s come up a couple of times that you’ve said is making sure that people are qualified to do business with you and a key piece of that is making sure that they’ve got the money to pay you. So that’s a really awesome point that you made and I think the other what you’re saying is, deliver value first and really deliver that.
I think I love to think like a fish instead of a fisherman analogy because I know in my journey, I know less when it comes to copywriting but I do a considerable amount of it and it does convert people. I certainly wasn’t born with that skill and I think that the thing for me in my evolution of that that has been interesting is, everytime I think I’m thinking like the fish, I’m not thinking like the fish as much as I could be. Because then, three months later or three revisions of that sales letter later, I’m like, “Oh my god, that was terrible but I thought it was great.” So awesome, awesome advice. Well, Wes, what’s the biggest piece of advice that you would leave people with who want to create an awesome life just like yours?
Wes: It’s funny because I thought about this for a long time. If you’re waiting for that perfect opportunity, that perfect product, that perfect business, it’s not going to come. There is no such thing as perfect in this world, at least that I know of. And when I was in medical sales, there was a point when I was like, I want to do my own business. I examined things and checked it out. I wanted something to be perfect. And then, some circumstances came up and I just had to pull the trigger and start a path on this. And I just look back and I thought, I could have done this a lot sooner had I not been looking for that perfect opportunity.
So at some point, you’re going to have to take a risk, you’re going to have to put some money on the line, you’re going to have to—pardon my French, you’re going to have to put your balls out there and run the risk of having a failure and some money and try to do your homework. Once again, find that niche that’s really ravenous that people are already buying products in. But at some point, there was the phrase, “You can’t steal second by keeping your foot on first base.” I mean, it’s true in business, too. You’re going to have to run for second base knowing you might get thrown out but that’s how you steal second base.
So, I think… I look at—there’s a lot of people I know that are brilliant. They have great ideas and are great people but they don’t have that little bit of risk-taking craziness that you need to be an entrepreneur and start your own business. Because you have to—at some point, I was just like, well, if I fail, I fail but at least I tried and I’m going to give it everything I got and make this successful. You have to have that all or nothing, do or die sort of attitude. You have to develop it. I don’t know, you’re going to have to just take a risk. There’s so many products that get rich in the day and this think your way to rich, it’s like all that stuff is just, in my opinion, it’s like there’s a value to it but go around thinking success and staying in your job, and you’re never going to start your business. You got to take a risk.
Jeff: Absolutely. Awesome, awesome advice. Wes, where can we go to get more information about you?
Wes: Yes. So, my website… I created a character called The Marketing Maniac based on something a client told me many years ago about I was just doing a lot of marketing campaigns so my website for that is my name, it’s wesleymurph.com. If you go there, you’re going to see some crazy picture of me in a strait jacket. It fits into the character of The Marketing Maniac. I do a daily email, blog post on marketing. It’s personality driven and I have some e-zine, you can sign up for a couple of things there. That’s probably the best way.
Jeff: Awesome. Well, we’ll link that up below the show, wesleymurph.com and sign up for his list. And I know one of the best ways to learn how to be a great copywriter is to watch a great copywriter in action. And you can get that everyday from Wes. Wes, I thank you very much for being on the show and I wish you the best of luck. I’m so excited about all the awesome advice that you gave our listeners. Look forward to staying in touch.
Wes: Good. Thanks, Jeff.
Jeff: Great episode of the How to Quit Working show with Wesley Murph. Go to his website, wesleymurph.com. It’s linked up below. Sign up for his newsletter and just watch how he does copywriting. There’s a lot to be learned from watching a great professional copywriter about writing your own copy. Because one of the things I think people don’t realize about their business is that writing copy is not just for sales letters. It’s not just for when you’re trying to sell something. Every single thing that you write is persuasive copy in your business. Everything that you’re trying to do is trying to persuade people to do something, to take an action. Even if it’s not buying something. Maybe it’s just come into your store, sign up for your newsletter or just read your blog post.
Everything is persuasive copy so always be thinking in that mindset of everything that you write should be persuasive and check out Wes’ newsletter and watch out how awesome he does it. If you feel moved or motivated by it, reach out to Wes and contact him and see how he might be able to help you in your business. I think he gave a really awesome piece of advice which was, if you’re waiting for the right time or you’re waiting for just the perfect opportunity or the perfect product or the perfect whatever to come along, it’s not going to. It never will. And even if the perfect thing does come along, nobody really executes anything perfectly. Nothing ever works perfectly. Nothing ever works the way you would expect it to. This business is about rolling up your sleeves, jumping in there and just getting started. So, no more sitting on the sidelines. Jump in there and get started. It’s a great piece of advice from Wes and one that I agree with wholeheartedly.
Now I know that one of the things that stops people from not only leaving their job to create the life of freedom that they’ve always wanted but also just from doing anything that they want to do in their life is not having the attitudes, tools, and habits of the most highly successful people in the world. People who accomplish big things have a certain set of things in common in the way that they think, in the way that they view situations, in the things that they do every single day. And the tools that they use to get things done. They have a certain set of those and it’s very, very common across all successful people whether it’s athletes, entrepreneurs, celebrities or anyone like that. And the thing that I think is really tragic about the world that we live in is that so few people know what those tools, habits, and mindsets and attitudes are.
And that’s why I’ve created a new group called How to Get What You Want over on LinkedIn. And if you just go to howtoquitworking.com/group, you’ll be taken right over to LinkedIn and you’ll be able to join that group. And that’s a group of really high performing people who are devoted to getting whatever they want out of life, not working for somebody else but living life on their terms and quitting working is only the tip of the iceberg of what’s possible. We have some great conversations.
I post new content out there several times a week and we just roll up our sleeves and we talk about it. We talk about what’s working for you. Some really successful people are in the group and we’ll reflect on what they’ve done and how they’ve used these attitudes and mindsets and habits to quit their jobs, become happier, have better relationships with their friends and family and loved ones. Awesome, awesome people talking about some awesome, awesome concepts and once you get there, there’s no obligation to do anything. There’s no cost. Just go and participate or just watch us have a great conversation, sit on the sidelines, be a fly in the wall for a while until you’re ready to jump in. But go over to howtoquitworking.com/group and look forward to another episode of the How To Quit Working show next week, and until then.